Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Climbing, But Were Afraid To Ask

[rydra_wong]

This is a post where you can ask all the questions you're always wanted to ask about climbing, whether you've already started or are just beginning to think about maybe possibly kind of giving this a try.

Or maybe you've been climbing for decades, and have always wondered about that one thing, and by now it would be OMG TOO EMBARASSING to admit you don't know.

No topics are off-limit, no questions too clueless, so let rip and get answers from demi-n00bs experienced climbers.

Comments

[hivesofactivity]

Thank you for this thread: I've always thought climbing SO BEAUTIFUL (a thought I have never had about any other sport), but probably beyond me.

My daft questions are:

1) How might being fat (which I am) substantially affect one's potential, or not?

2) How much does hand/finger strength matter? (I am UTTERLY ENTRANCED by the teeny-tininess of the fingerholds the women in those vids can hang their whole bodyweight on. Oh, amazing.)

3) Do you need good knees, even if you can learn to fall in a way which doesn't hurt the bad-ish knees you currently possess?

[rydra_wong]

1) To some extent. Strength-to-weight ratio is inevitably a big element with climbing, so being relatively heavy (whether it's fat or muscle or both) does put you at a disadvantage to begin with.

But then so does being extremely weak (which I am), and I've found that as a weak climber, I can often out-sneaky people with much more strength than me. Technique rules.

So -- it is a factor, yeah. But it's not inherently going to stop you from climbing well and having a lot of fun. One of Britain's best trad climbers is a fairly hefty guy by the name of John Dunne.

2) HUGELY. But it develops naturally as you climb; the tricky bit is pacing yourself and making sure you don't tweak your finger and elbow tendons (muscles get stronger a lot faster than tendons do).

Some of my happiest moments have come when I realize that my fingers have upgraded themselves and I can suddenly use even tinier holds; it's like magic!

3) Nope. I've got recurrent knee problems, and have found climbing (and jumping from the top of the wall) fine at times when it hurt me to walk. If my knees are playing up, I have to avoid pivoting round on a foothold in a way which creates torque on the knee, but otherwise I'm good.

Obviously it depends on your particular knee problems, but it's not necessarily a barrier at all.

You might need to experiment and see whether your knees are happier with bouldering or roped climbing, but either way you don't get the sheer number of repeated impacts that you do with something like running (or walking).

[pellucid]

I'll bite on this one!

1) Because climbing is a matter of every individual's strength to weight ratio, there's no ideal climbing body (nor is there any body type that would prevent someone from being able to climb). The most elite climbers do tend to be very lean, but let's face it: most of us will never be elite climbers. And there are plenty of overweight people who climb well and more importantly, enjoy it. As [Unknown site tag] said in her recent post, you really only need to be able to climb a ladder to start climbing: can you use your feet to step up while also holding on, balancing, and pulling with your hands?

Heavier people need to develop more muscle than lighter people as they improve on the climbing: you have to be able to move your own body weight up the wall, and it takes more strength to move 250 pounds than 150, for instance. But heavier people DO develop that muscle more quickly because they ARE moving more weight up the wall. I've got around 40-50 pounds on my climbing partner. We climb at about the same level. In order to do that, I've got more muscle than she does because there's more of me to haul up the wall, but I've developed that muscle from climbing, and it's effective.

2) It depends. If you're climbing at a level where you're hanging your whole body weight on a single finger or two, then hand/finger strength matters a lot. If you're just starting out, though, you'll mostly be using big jug holds that are easy to grab with your whole hand--that requires a lot less hand/finger strength. As with all the other kinds of strength needed for climbing, hand and finger strength develops with practice. As you move from easier routes to more difficult ones that require more/different kinds of strength, you'll start to develop that strength.

3) If you have knee problems, I'd recommend mostly doing toprope rather than bouldering. Bouldering is climbing without ropes on short walls: you don't go very high, but if you fall off you fall to the ground, and if you get to the top of a problem that you can't downclimb (if you're too tired, for instance) or climb over the top of the wall (not all bouldering walls allow this), you have to jump. You're jumping/falling onto thick pads, but there's still room to tweak a knee, especially if they're already weak.

Toprope, on the other hand, is climbing a taller route with a rope and a harness and a belayer. The rope is secured at the top of the route (hence the name), and if your belayer is doing his/her job, you'll never fall: if you let go of the wall, the rope will hold you right where you are. Then the belayer will let you down gently when you're done. I can't think of any way that toproping would strain your knees.

I hope you decide to give climbing a try! It's great fun, and like Rydra says, it really is possible for almost anyone. No, not everyone is going to be able to do the hard stuff (not immediately and for most of us not ever), but there's great fun to be had at all levels.

[ilanarama]

Trad outdoor climbing actually depends a lot less on finger strength than on body positioning and balance. Indoor climbing tends to be face climbing, in which hand/finger strength is important, although the better you get the LESS you actually use your arms, as you learn how to use your whole body (for example, flagging a foot to one side to counterbalance your arm on the other makes it easier to hold on without hand/arm strength).

On the other hand, technique-y climbing does depend a lot on your knees, as you need to be able to (for example) place a foot high and then shift your weight over it and straighten your leg to stand.

Being fat will make climbing more work for you. I have climbing friends who are not sylph-thin, though, who are plenty decent climbers.

[ghost_lingering]

What's the financial commitment like? Do you have to belong to a gym/pay a lot for a beginner's class? Do you have to buy expensive equipment? I'd love to try, but I'm unsure I could afford it.

[rydra_wong]

The cost varies a lot depending on what kind of climbing you go for (bouldering tends to be cheaper since you don't need any equipment beyond shoes and a chalkbag, and a mat if you're going bouldering outdoors), and also whether you're near any good outdoor rocks.

Climbing walls will usually offer a pretty cheap one-off beginners' class or taster session of some kind (and let you rent shoes and chalk), so if you try it and decide it's not for you, you won't have wasted a lot of money.

[cofax7]

Also, depending on where you are, you might have access to university resources (a LOT of colleges have climbing walls now) or public resources (minnaway climbs at a gym owned by the local parks department, IIRC).

And I gave up my "regular" health club membership to join my climbing gym, because it has a full weights room setup, yoga classes, aerobic machines, and even free Crossfit classes (although I'm too wimpy to join those). The only thing it doesn't have is a sauna or jacuzzi (sigh).

[jumpuphigh]

I don't boulder so here is my take on equipment from someone who mainly climbs ropes in the gym:

When starting out, you don't need to buy anything. Harnesses and shoes can be rented at every gym I've ever gone to and they sometimes have chalk bags and chalk as part of the rental package as well.

The nice thing is that you can usually start with buying nothing except gym usage and a beginner class. As you get into it more and more, you will really start to want your own equipment. Gym shoes tend to be really generic to fit as many people as possible and harnesses are the cheapest out there (safe but not so comfortable - actually, darn uncomfortable).

The most expensive item that you will want to buy is shoes. I just checked prices on REI and they currently run between US$75 and $140. I bought my shoes many years ago and they were more expensive than anything you could find in REI at the time. I advise renting shoes, trying friends' shoes, etc. for a while until you are sure what you want because they are a big investment and it can take a while to figure out what works for you. I only have one pair of shoes but that is more about the shape of my feet and trying to find shoes that are happy-making than about cost. Most climbers that I know have multiple pairs for different situations. I took a very long time in finding shoes to purchase. I must have tried on every shoe out there and eventually purchased a brand that no one had ever heard of because I refused to buy shoes that didn't work for my feet. I recommend taking your time and being picky. Good shoes are a dream and bad shoes a nightmare. The right shoe really changes your climbing experience.

A lot of my equipment I bought at a discount. If you go to large events with vendors, the vendors will bring stuff that they are discontinuing in an attempt to clear out stock. I bought my harness for US$30-35 which was a smoking deal. It's a pretty high-end harness and would have cost me around $80 in a store. This was about 5 or 6 years ago. You'll also need a locking carabiner (US$10).

You'll want a chalk bag and chalk but chalk is cheap and chalk bags can again be found on sale places. I think this was probably my first equipment purchase. Well, that and tape for my fingers. :)

That is your initial outlay for equipment when you are ready for equipment.

Harnesses last a long time, shoes less long. You can get shoes resoled which sometimes works great and sometimes doesn't. I replace my carabiners regularly which isn't too expensive (at least once a year - more often if I or someone else has taken a big fall on it). The thing is, you never want to skimp on your equipment. Your safety depends upon it. If you start lead-climbing, you will want your own belay device (US$20). If you start climbing outside regularly, the cost of climbing sky-rockets. Safety equipment is expensive and you need a lot of it and it all has to be replaced regularly.

I don't want to scare you off due to cost. I just want you to have a complete picture. I started climbing when I was pretty poor. I worked at a gym and got free climbing access as one of my comps. I got a discount on classes (which I advise taking). I saved up for all of my equipment once I knew that I was going to want to climb for the rest of my life. I looked for bargains and watched REI-outlet to see when things were discounted. If you are an indoor climber, there aren't many maintenance costs once you've made your initial investment into equipment. Resoling shoes, chalk and new carabiners costs less than US$100 a year.

[ilanarama]

Climbing outside requires only shoes, a harness, a belay device, and a friend with the gear who is willing to set the gear or lead.

Some colleges and rec centers offer "lifelong learning" type classes to the community which might include climbing.

[gchick]

What's with the little numbers? I have a few climbing friends (I include you, duh!) and they go off on these awesome-sounding trips and come back with reports like "Monday we did Kerfuffle (4.3) and then Tuesday we went out to the north face of Foofaraw (7.293) and then Wednesday we hung out and drank some beer because it rained, and then Thursday we climbed Ol' Jinglyschmerz (π^2) in the morning and headed home and boy am I sore". And, like, I can guess that it's all about grading how hard particular climbs are, and I assume that bigger numbers are more badass, but is that an average badassitude number? Or the maximum badass at a specific point on the climb? Or what?

[cofax7]

Rydra, I'll take this one!

[rydra_wong]

OMFG GRADING. Yes, basically, bigger numbers are always more badass.

But there are ten zillionty different grading systems, some of which are cunningly designed to look like each other while meaning something completely different! And sometimes the grade measures "average difficulty of the whole thing" and sometimes it measures "maximum difficulty" and sometimes overall strenuousness gets factored in and it's all subjective and OMFG.

In the UK, we have a special grading system for trad routes which exists purely for the purpose of confusing foreigners and allowing endless grading wank (grading wank being one of the perennial climbing wanks.)

It includes a technical grade (for example, "6c") which says how difficult the moves are in pure technique terms and then an adjectival grade (for example, "E7") which says how dangerous/exposed/hardcore/badass the route is, and then everyone fights viciously over the latter in internet forums. And then some Americans come over and do it incredibly easily and hardened British trad climbers cry into their beer.

I am a simple bouldering soul and just do V-numbers (V for John "Vermin" Sherman).

You start with V0 (or "VB" for even-easier-than-V0, though some walls just roll that up into V0). It gets harder as the numbers go up. Because bouldering problems are essentially the point of maximum badassitude with the rest of the climb taken away -- bouldering is the espresso of the climbing world -- it's usually fairly clear what it's measuring.

Now I hope that some kind people will chip in and explain other grading systems.

[cofax7]

On edit:

Okay, so the numbers are indicators of degrees of difficulty. In the US, we use three different measures for difficulty, depending on the type of climbing. These measures reflect steepness of the face (including potential overhanging), number of possible holds, and usefulness of those holds.

1. Bouldering (like Rydra does) uses a V scale, going from V0 (easiest) to V10 (hardest). I've never seen anything harder than V10 at the gym, but I'm sure they exist outside. In the gym I attend, V0 is roughly equivalent to a 5.9 or so, maybe an easy 5.10. But the routes tend to be steeply overhanging, with multiple difficult moves linked together.

2. Free-climbing, like you see when people are roped up and either climbing bolted routes or setting their own protection, use what is called the Yosemite Decimal System. You start with a system of classifying hiking/scrambling, where flat ground is Class 1, easy uphill walking is Class 2, etc, up to Class 5, which requires the climber to be roped for safety because if they fall they can die. Class 5 was originally broken into ten subcategories, so you could climb 5.1 to 5.10, and 5.10 was The Hardest. The grade is generally set to reflect the difficulty of the hardest move in the routes (the crux), although it may score higher if there are multiple difficult moves.

Of course, what happened after the YDS was established (in the 1930s, according to Wikipedia) is that climbing technology improved--new shoes, new ropes, better protection--and we could safely climb routes that couldn't be climbed before. So now the YDS goes up to 5.15 IIRC.

Most indoor climbing starts at about 5.3-5.5, which are basically ladders on a straight-to-slightly-sloped face. Nowadays, I spend most of my time on 5.9s and 5.10s, and because this is common for a lot of climbers, the 5.10s are sub-categorized into 5.10a, 5.10b, 5.10c, and 5.10d. Same with 5.11s, not so much with 5.12s. I've never seen anything harder than a 5.12 at an indoor gym.

Sometimes there will be an added note in the guidebook indicating the risk of injury if you fall: the one to worry about is "X", which basically means there are spots on the wall where if you fall, you will hit the ground and very likely die.

3. Aid climbing, which is big-wall climbing where you actually use the ropes to pull yourself up the wall, uses a different system, looking at the requirements for specialized gear and the possibilities for protection placement. A0-A5, where A5 involves the potential for a fall of 20 meters or more.

Finally, the YDS is not universal; the British and French both have their own systems, and the Australians also have one. So when I climbed in Thailand I got to know the French system, possibly because the first international climbers there were French? I dunno.

This Wikipedia page has a pretty good overview/explanation of the rating systems, and a very useful comparison chart at the bottom.

[fourteenlines]

Are there reasons someone just shouldn't climb? Like, for instance, I've started taking prednisone in the last two months, and I will be on it for awhile. Prednisone saps bone density and also thins the skin, leading to brittle bones and easy bruising (and sometimes nasty gashes from something as simple as running into a chair.) I've been interested in climbing (bouldering in particular, since I have a RL friend who does it and an affordable bouldering gym nearby) for awhile, but thought that because I was overweight/unathletic/etc, I needed to wait until I was in better shape.

But Rydra's post convinced me that's not the case - except - now I have other issues, ones I didn't have before. Anyone have experience climbing with health problems that might make the choice seem crazy? Anyone specifically done any climbing while taking prednisone? How great is the risk?

[cofax7]

Oh, interesting. I guess the question is: is weight-lifting contra-indicated by taking prednisone? Because climbing is a form of weightlifting, and should help improve bone-density, but I dunno if your doctors think that engaging in it would put you at risk of injury. If that's not a problem, I do suspect you might want to concentrate on top-roping rather than bouldering, to limit the risk of falling.

I have occasionally broken the skin while climbing, but mostly outdoors. Except for when I've used my elbows or knees to stem against something: for a while I always had scabs on my elbows from stemming.

[jumpuphigh]

Well, I climb with Multiple Sclerosis and the choice is both crazy and sane. It's crazy cause it wipes me out and increases my symptoms but it is sane because it helps my mental health and makes me feel powerful. *shrugs* You have to weigh the benefits with the problems.

I wouldn't recommend starting climbing while pregnant but I know a number of women who have climbed or are currently climbing while pregnant. However, they were all climbers prior to getting pregnant.

If you do climb, I'd recommend getting someone to show you how to tape your fingers to protect them and add Vitamin C to your diet as that helps the skin/blood vessels heal. For me, most of my injuries have been finger stuff (skin peeling off and tendon problems) and bruises on my knees. For whatever reason, the way I move on the wall bruises my knees but that is really just my problem instead of an issue with climbing. Strength training actually increases bone density so climbing may help you there.

[rydra_wong]

Thinking about it:

You may have to take extra care of the skin on your hands, as climbing can be rough on them; I get a lot of scrapes, and blisters are inevitable until you develop callouses.

But there are various climbing balms that help the skin heal much faster, and tape can be used to protect abraded spots. I don't think it'd be a major issue, just something to be aware of in advance.

[cadenzamuse]

Hi. Talk to me about wrists and hands, please? I have tendonitis issues that are really not that bad compared to lots of people, but considering that sometimes any weight at all is horrible, and that half the time holding hands (the interlaced way) with my SO aggravates my wrists, I am just...skeptical.

(But rydra_wong's post of glee and joy on climbing made me want to try at least enough that I came over here to ask anyway!)

[jumpuphigh]

I sometimes get usage bruises in my wrists (although I get them from mousing on my computer as well so I'm not sure how good of a measure that is). If you already have tendonitis issues, climbing will probably aggravate them. I don't have tendonitis issues and my finger tendons usually hate me after climbing. I tape as a preventative measure. Proper technique reduces problems in the wrists. Also, it helps to just accept that you are going to be where you are at in terms of climbing ability. Adjusting your climbing for your body is a time honored practice. There is someone at my gym who is only able to use one hand. I've worked on climbing without hands. There are ways to challenge yourself when climbing that don't involve harder and harder problems which means that there are ways to adapt climbing for almost everyone.

Climbing hurts. It does. Our fingers are raw. Our knuckles are cranky. Our forearms burn. We end up bruised and bleeding. Yet we still climb because it is worth it.

[rydra_wong]

Okay, that's a tough one. I would say the limiting factor is probably the state of your finger tendons; climbing puts a lot of stress on them, and climbers spend much time in arcane rituals to ward off tendon and pulley injuries. So yeah, that doesn't sound promising.

OTOH, my uneducated impression (based on my own attempts to ward off elbow tendonitis) is that tendon problems are often highly specific, and climbing works muscles and tendons in ways that are quite different from everyday movements.

So it's possible that issues that are badly aggravated by typing (for example) may be relatively okay with the gripping movements in climbing.

[bessemerprocess]

Okay, so my local climbing gym seems to have a beginner's class on Monday, and you guys have pretty well convinced me to sign up.

I tend to like new experiences better when I know what to expect in advance and the guy one the phone (yeah, this is how much you guys convinced me, I actually used a phone) was sort of like, "oh anyone can do this, it'll fun, just come and see." So, what should I expect?

[rydra_wong]

you guys have pretty well convinced me to sign up.

\o/

I have phone-loathing, so I am duly impressed by that bit.

So, what should I expect?

Depends on whether it's a bouldering-only wall or a roped climbing wall.

If it's the latter, a chunk of the time will be spent on safety and protection issues: how to put on a harness, how to belay, etc.. (Maybe some of the folks who do roped climbing can chip in here? I only know this secondhand, owing to my stubborn refusal to do anything that involves learning to tie knots.)

If it's the former, there's very little to learn in the way of safety ("try to land with your weight on both feet and bend your knees" and "for fuck's sake don't walk under anyone who's climbing" is pretty much all of it), so more time may be spent on movement technique.

Either way, they'll tend to start you out on a climb that's very, very easy -- big holds and quite probably on a slab (less-than-vertical, so you don't have to use any muscle to hold on). This is mostly there to get you past the psychological freakout that comes from OMG I'M VERY HIGH UP NOW.

Then they'll try you on something a bit harder.

You may get to deliberately practice falling, so you start feeling confident that it's safe. You will almost certainly get to practice non-deliberate falling, which is a shock to the system at first but (IMHE) surprisingly okay -- at least, not nearly as bad as I imagined it to be, and over very quickly.

Really, all you have to do is not run out of there screaming.

If you can manage that, you're good. And remember that everyone else in the class is likely to be freaking out too, whether they show it or not.

The question is whether, amidst the freaking out, you get that glimpse of it as something you could fall in love with.

Afterwards: drink a lot of water, take a hot bath, and be prepared to wake up extremely achy the day after (and possibly worse the day after that). Climbing works a lot of muscles that get minimal work in everyday life, so initially the delayed-onset muscle soreness is a killer.

[cofax7]

For the roped stuff, they'll put you in a harness and make sure you know how to put it on and how to make sure it's fastened correctly. They will show you how to tie a figure-eight to your harness. They might teach you to belay, and they should teach you the basic command sequence all roped climbers learn. ("On belay?" "Belay on." "Climbing!" "Climb away/Ready/whatever")

They'll send you up a short easy route while you're tied into the rope and belayed by the instructor, and if they're smart they'll show you how to come down while you're only five feet off the ground -- basically you sit back in the harness, letting all your weight hang on the rope, let go of the wall, and prop your feet up against the wall in front of you as though you were sitting on the ground. It sounds simple, but it's psychologically kind of scary because you have to trust the harness, the rope, and the belayer. Coming down is, for a LOT of new climbers, the scariest part of it all. Oh, and no matter what you see the other people doing, don't bounce on the way down: it's a good way to sprain an ankle. Just walk your feet down the wall. (Those Army commercials with the guys doing huge leaping bounds while rappelling have a lot to answer for.)

It really is tons of fun, and the other folks in the class should be supportive and enthusiastic.

And yeah, your forearms are likely to hurt afterwards: after my first formal climbing class I had a very hard time changing gears driving home.

Oh, and one last thing: wear light soft pants that you can move in: yoga pants or something like that. Jeans get bunched up under the harness and it's uncomfortable. Best is a pair of capri pants because really long pants get in the way of your feet.

[harborshore]

So if one is starting to think about this and intends to sign up for a beginner's class for her birthday--is one kind of climbing a good introduction to another, or should I just try to figure out which kind I'll like best?

[rydra_wong]

Assuming you're starting at an indoor wall, your basic choice is likely to be whether you want to take a bouldering-only class or a general introduction class (which may include some bouldering, but will probably focus on roped climbing, because you need to learn how to fasten harnesses, how to belay, etc.).

The basic movement technique is the same, so I'd suggest taking a general class unless you're very sure that you don't want to do anything with ropes (I was, but I'm weird that way): you can always go on to focus on bouldering later if you want. The difference is really about emphasis.

And If you're eying Grand Canyon-type rocks with WANT, then you'll definitely need to learn the roped stuff *g*.